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Saturday, March 27, 2010

ArchicadFAIL - Forum post and comparison of Revit to their software.

Awwww...you shouldn't have.... I'd like to thank the every Archicad user for their continued support...of our products.

Because we get the occasional "we're going to buy software from another vendor" threat, I like to stay on top of what the Archicad forums say about their own products and Autodesk products.

Reasons why Archicad can't compete with Autodesk.
1. Worldwide adoption: Archicad is mainly used in Europe. Sure, there are pockets of people in the US, but nothing compared to Revit adoption.
2. Content: I'd like to first say that their GDL scripting language is just about impossible for a non programming person to use. That would explain why manufacturers aren't making content for them, but are focusing on Revit content. It's all about the content. Content with intelligence that can be used in energy calculations.
3. Revit MEP vs Archicad MEP Modeler. Archicad has a plugin to do MEP modeling. That's all it does. Model. It doesn't actually design the system, do any sort of load balancing or calculations. It just one big fancy extruding tool. I wonder what they have to do for energy calculations.
4. Energy Calculations: Archicad does have an energy modeling program. When I took a closer look at it, there's a drop down menu for building type. There are three choices, Heavyweight, Medium and Lightweight. Sounds like the story of the three little pigs. The info for the product is manually entered and doesn't seem nearly as robust as IES, Ecotect and Green Building Studio. I didn't see anything about sun shading.

Here's what Revit users get: Shadows and Reflections, Shading Design, Solar Analysis, Photovoltaic Array Sizing and Load Matching, Lighting Design, Right-to-Light, Acoustic Analysis, Thermal Analysis, Ventilation and Airflow, Energy and Carbon Results, Whole Building Energy Analysis, Carbon Emission Reporting, Water Usage and Costs Evaluation, Photovoltaic Potential, Energy STAR Scoring, Daylighting, Project Locating, Weather Pinpointing, Detailed Weather Analysis, Wind Energy Potential, Natural Ventilation Potential, Analyzing Design Alternatives.

Uh...I don't think there's even a chance they have the tools we have.
5. Contractors. Not one general contractor or subcontractor is using Archicad. In fact, with the new features of Revit MEP, there will be even more subcontractors who can now do their conduit runs, cable trays and use the improvements for panels, ducts and piping. Since the BIM for Contractor movement is what's really driving Revit right now, the manufacturers are more inclined to create more content for Revit and no one else.
6. Speaking of contractors...Navisworks. Archicad has a virtual building explorer. That's all it does. Let's you walk through the building. It doesn't do clash detection or tie in the construction schedule. It's all about the clash detection. I suppose it's because the don't have the amount of Revit family content so why bother with clash detection.
7. You. Yes, you're the reason Archicad can't compete with Revit. In just a few short years, you've outnumbered the number of Archicad users over the past 26 years. That must mean something. With the 2011 releases coming out soon, there will be even more AutoCAD users moving over to Revit. I'd say in about another 2 or 3 years, there should be about 3 million Revit users out there.
8. Autodesk. I've lost count, but I think they have almost 100 products now. Biggest ones that affect you. Civil 3D, Inventor, and 3ds Max Design. It's all about workflow, process and sharing the data. I don't think anyone can compete with the Autodesk product line.

OK, I'm bored now. I do want to thank the Archicad forum for posting direct links to Autodesk, David Light of HOK and my Revit blog. Thanks guys. We appreciate the extra traffic and having you get more depressed about the new Autodesk product line.

I do love the "almost on the same playing field" comment. It's like the captain of the Titanic saying "it's a beautiful night for a swim."

If anyone else wants to add comments, feel free to post them here. It's time to have some fun and watch them squirm.

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Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 15
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Revit 2011 & Autocad 2011 Reply with quote

This release is huge, really huge. I think they have almost bridge the gap with Archicad. Archicad has always been a few release ahead of Revit, but with this release, Revit is almost on the same playing field as Archicad.


ArchiCAD-Talk :: View topic - Revit 2011 & Autocad 2011


Anonymous,  March 30, 2010 at 9:33 AM  

Revit has poor TeamWork capability

Anonymous,  March 30, 2010 at 1:02 PM  

are you an architect? because by the way you talk it seems that you're more interested in MEP than architecture.

I don't know if you heard about IFC... but all BIM software works with this standard file format (including autodesk and graphisoft's) so it's really easy to collaborate with all consultants and their software.

So my question is, do you really know archicad?

I can give you a lot of reasons not to buy Revit:
1) price (compare both)
2) revit still needs autocad LT for documentation (drawings are really bad in revit)... sure you might answer it's BIM! no drawings are required...try that!
3) Contractors don´t use Archicad...are you sure? Ever heard about VICO for archicad?
4) teamwork 2.0 (not worksets)
5) interactive schedules
i could go on

In 1982 autodesk launched autocad... graphisoft launched archicad in 1982 with the same concept it uses today "Virtual Building" aka BIM. So i guess autodesk is 28 years late.
If Graphisoft was american CAD would have ended in the 80's.
Autodesk is hardly famous for being inovative... they just buy every single software better then theirs. No investment on that... i wonder what will happen to Revit if something better comes out... will they drop it like they did with ADT? there goes the stability argument.

That said, Revit has a lot of good stuff, modeling is really easy. But it's still too obvious that it wasn't created for architects. You are right on GDL... but that will end pretty soon.

Your position is that because they are so big we have to keep with them. Whereas it should be let's choose the best software and product available, or just that one that fits better with me. It's like defending Microsoft or Google...
I hope that Autodesk invests a lot on Revit and that it keeps getting better so this way all other software houses will keep improving theirs.
Since Autodesk decided to promote Revit more seriously, Archicad got really better... that's good.

Anonymous,  June 5, 2010 at 8:05 AM  

Hmmmm. Having visited for the first time on this website I have to say the gloat factor about Revit is quite nauseating. I've used both Revit (3 years and ArchiCAD (2 years) and all I can say is guys, just cool it and get back to what really matters - CREATING GOOD BLOODY ARCHITECTURE AND BUILDINGS. Yes, each program has it's strengths, but because I'm more interested in producing great architecture than arguing about the fine points of software, I use ArchiCAD. So until Revit allows you to do most of your work in perspective 3D, which is how good architects think, I'm unlikely to move to any other tool. Plus Revit's 2D drawings are crapola and I can't stand AutoCAD, so that seals it. When I get that huge public building commission where I can do all that fancy nurbs modelling and bendy glazing and framing, I may look at other options, Revit being one of them. So until then, ArchiCAD is a dream for my practice. My clients love the realism and walkthrough smoothness, the model looks realistic when working and the technical drawings are as good as AutoCAD.

Anonymous,  June 5, 2010 at 8:11 AM  

PS ArchiCAD models are fully interchangeable with Revit and Revit Structure, so why would any architect care about ArchiCAD MEP? That's what a mechanical engineer does! Autodesk can go noisily about it's plan to succeed at world domination, but that's not a good reason to use Revit.

Anonymous,  July 1, 2010 at 9:31 AM  

I've used Revit from version 08-11, and this latest realease really gave me a slap in the face with the FBX export etc. And the application isn't finished, it's unstable, it crashes with ->(W7 64bit, 2* xeon quad, 19GB ram and FX3800). I get the same feeling (about Revit) i got when Vista came along. Looks good on the outside, crap on the inside.
So sorry Autodesk, no more of you in the future.
ArchiCAD may not be perfect, but it seems much more stable and intuitive.

Anonymous,  August 19, 2010 at 1:22 PM  

I have used both ArchiCAD and Revit both with their own issues. Maybe you can title this one RevitFAIL.

We have a model in Revit that has already gone through 2 city submittal and is close to permitting. This means the entire CD set has been done etc. This is a large building (350MB) that has many groups. The building also has many levels associated to various heights. If I had to estimate there might be 50 different levels used thought out the project, for plate heights, bottom frames etc. Some are for architectural and some for structural.

Okay here is the challenge:
The client / contractor have decided that 9” should be removed from the 1st floor to lower entire building for Value Engineering. This means that every level associated to this must change. This file includes basement levels that are lower than 1st floor for overhanging roofs that are below 1st floor level.
Now with everything associating everything else the challenge to simply changing the heights is very tough.

My 1st thought was ok change the 1st floor height and build up from lowest level upwards till all levels dropped by the 9 7/8”. The problem with this is it wants to delete lots of stuff each time I go to adjust levels. i.e lights, dimensions, etc. I don’t want to play “Where’s Waldo” to replace objects that get automatically be deleted. So we are currently still fighting with this as each thing we try seems to take 40 min to execute on our best system in the office due to lack of multithreading on this task in Revit.

This particular problem seems to plague the entire concept behind Revit attaching objects to levels. So you ArchiCAD users be careful what features you wish for as this would be a simple double marque stretch command in ArchiCAD.

Randy August 31, 2010 at 1:31 PM  

I like many in this post have worked with both ArchiCad and Revit. I continue to be open minded about what BIM is and is not. The industries are starting to more fully except the tools, and that's really all that they are, but what fundamentally continues to be an obstacle in firms and on projects across North America is the workflow processes and mindsets. THE MAGIC BULLET IS AND WILL BE IN THE FUTURE A PARADIGM SHIFT IN HOW FIRMS APPROCH PROJECTS AND THE BIM PROCESS. How many BIM projects I have already seen where every ones just shooting from the hip and hoping to realize a great outcome.
As the old saying goes a failure to plan is a plan to fail!!
That said, there will always be personal and firm preferences for BIM platform tools. Our challenge is to make the software manufactures understand that to stay competitive they have to play well with others, and then how well do they connect to the rest of the cradle to grave food chain????? I find it the most interesting time in history to be involved in our industries. We like no generations before us nor maybe none after us have the ability to create and form what the future holds. Let's move forward and understand not everyone's going to like or want to use what we choose as our weapon of choice. What a waste of energy, let's instead stay focused on making the vendors accountable to our needs, one of the best venues for this available is the smartBuildingalliance interest groups tied back to the NIBS in DC. Use your voice and your industry sphere of influence, help those around you understand that it's not about platform choice, it's about the bigger project picture and gathering the information once and having it available to all involved on the project (HELLO). People being people and the bottom line being the end goal ends up costing everyone more and hurting us all. I know there can be an effective use of these technologies to help us overcome our differences, but it will be hampered and slowed if we continue our petty bickering over preferences. The real question is will the tool work with the other tools in this workflow and how much will it impact the rest of the project.

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